10-30-2009, 10:21 PM
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#1
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Member (4 bit)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 13
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First Time Prospective Core I7 Builder vs Dell XPS 9000 Core I7
Hello all:
Long time lurker whose never built a system. Understanding there's alot of love in this room for AMD products, I personally will pay a bit of a premium for a better performing chip set that may last a number of years. After all, I've stretched the life of a Dell Optiplex G240 until it won't play any game made today.
I've spent the time to compare components and pricing of a DELL XPS 9000 Core I7 920 system against similar components sourced at NEWEGG and find there's only $100. or so difference in price. I suppose someone with argue at the lower NEWEGG cost, I'm still getting some enhanced components like a 700w certified power supply versus 475w in the Dell system.
But Dell bundles a WIN7 OS and warranty and support into that small difference.
AND - the DELL machine comes BUILT out of a box.
I've done loads of repairs, hard drive swaps, fan replacements, cpu swaps, memory upgrades, etc. But I consider that to still be far different than building disparate manufacturer's parts into a working PC.
I'm struggling to find a significant benefit here. I'd appreciate more experience views here.
Studio XPS 9000: DELL
Case: XPS 9000
Power supply: 475W
Mobo: Intel Motherboard
Proc: Intel® Core™ i7-920 processor(8MB L3 Cache, 2.66GHz)
OS: Win 7 Home Premium, 64bit
1Yr Ltd Hardware Warranty, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis
Memory: 6GB Tri-Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz - 6 DIMMs
hard drive: 500GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive
Optical Drive: 16x CD/DVD Burner & Roxio 10
Video Card: nVidia GeForce GTX 260 1792MB
Sound Card: Soundblaster® X-Fi™ Xtreme Audio
Speaker: Bose Companion 2 Series II Multimedia Speaker System
Keyboard: Dell USB Consumer Multimedia Keyboard
Mouse: Dell Studio Optical Mouse
Integrated 10/1000 Ethernet
DELL $1,528.00
NewEgg
Case: COOLER MASTER HAF 932 ATX Full Tower 139.99
Powersupply: OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ700MXSP 700W SLI Certified $99.99 *
Mobo: ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX $289.99
Proc: Intel® Core™ i7-920 processor(8MB L3 Cache, 2.66GHz) $288.99
OS: WIN7 Ultimate UVA Student discount $10
Memory: CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB DDR3 SDRAM 1600 Triple Channel $229.99
Hard drive: WD Caviar Black 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA $109.99
Optical Drive: LITE-ON Black 24X D SATA CD/DVD Burner $31.99
Video Card: EVGA 896-P3-1255-AR GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 896MB 448-bit $189.99
Sound Card: Integrated MB - Eight channels of HD sound -ADI AD2000B audio chipset $0
Speakers: Bose Companion 2 Series II Multimedia Speaker System $99
Keyboard: Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboard 2000 $17.99
Mouse: Logitech LX3 Silver/Black 3 Buttons Tilt Wheel USB or PS/2 Wired Optical Mouse $21.99
Integrated 10/1000 Ethernet
NewEgg $1,529.90
$(55.00) Combo rebate on Proc/Case/MB
$(30.00) Mail-in rebate on Proc/Case/MB
$1,444.90 Total
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10-30-2009, 10:26 PM
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#2
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Forum Administrator
Staff
Premiere Member
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Joplin MO
Posts: 26,021
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Quote:
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Understanding there's alot of love in this room for AMD products
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Not as much as it may appear. I, and several other Intel people, have given up arguing with the AMD fanboys here. I just let them have their fun and stay out of their threads.
If you want a X58-based i7, buy the Dell and extend the warranty. If you want to build, price out a P55-based i7-860 on an Asus P7P55D-series board.
Look at Corsair power supplies and ATI video cards. |
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10-31-2009, 06:16 PM
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#3
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Member (4 bit)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 13
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Thanks for the feedback
GLC:
Is your suggestion of CoreI7 860 vice 920 one of performance or Price.
I had seen your earlier ASUS comments and thought I picked the correct one.
Thanks for your time/effort for the feedback.
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10-31-2009, 06:40 PM
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#4
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Member (9 bit)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glc
Not as much as it may appear. I, and several other Intel people, have given up arguing with the AMD fanboys here. I just let them have their fun and stay out of their threads.
If you want a X58-based i7, buy the Dell and extend the warranty. If you want to build, price out a P55-based i7-860 on an Asus P7P55D-series board.
Look at Corsair power supplies and ATI video cards.
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Why do you keep suggesting that X58 chipsets are so bad? I'm loving my new build so far, and with quality brands, no DOA items, its running amazing. Maybe the older C0 stepping i7's that ran hotter could have had issues, but every time I see someone mention i7 on the 1366 socket, you have something negative to say about it. If they were so bad they wouldn't be so popular within the enthusiast market.
The 1366 socket (X58) chipset is an enthusiast chipset, and if you're more of a mainstream computer person, go with the P55 chipset to be more budget friendly. If you don't want to build your computer, buy the Dell. They may offer the same parts, but they use different brands (not sure what type of brands Dell uses in their computers, but you always have warranties if something goes wrong).
As far as AMD, it's a great choice if you are on a tight budget, and don't need Multi-GPU setups, or Hyperthreading, they still make great CPU's.
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10-31-2009, 06:46 PM
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#5
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Member (4 bit)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 13
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GLC:
I looked at the Asus P7P55D-series at NewEgg and Googled an XBIT Editors recommendation. I see it's a dual channel mobo. Is the issue COST that drives this recommendation?
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10-31-2009, 07:18 PM
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#6
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Forum Administrator
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Join Date: May 2000
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Cost and stability. There is very little performance difference.
Yes, the X58 is an enthusiast chipset, and it has had a history of quirks and instability. Barch, I'm happy for you, but I can't wholeheartedly recommend an X58. If you MUST build an X58, that seems to be the most stable motherboard. I've been building computers for about 15 years now, and I won't build an X58.
By the way, that Dell uses pretty slow ram.
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11-20-2009, 12:21 PM
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#8
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Avanzato Tecnico
Premiere Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,418
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Welcome to PCmech forums. Ok, the way it works with Gaming rigs is Video card (85% of gaming processing is done by the video card) and power supply are most important. You have a too powerful processor and a mid range video card. The X58 chipset is not reliable and I do not recommend it for someone who is not very experienced. If you are an expert system builder then go for it if not, I would drop the processor to an i5 750 with an Asus P55 motherboard, $414 for a motherboard is not the way to go. Here is a motherboard that will seriously own for gaming for $170 http://usa.asus.com/product.aspx?P_I...QNm&templete=2 and is far more stable than the X58 chipset.
The Video card you want is the ATI 5870 not the 5850 I realize the 5870 is hard to get right now but you can put it on auto notify with newegg.com and buy it when it comes in stock, the difference between the 5850 and 5870 is drastic. Everything else you chose is excellent.
This advice will give you a much better gaming rig for the money.
If you must build it now I would seriously consider the Nvidia GTX295 It will fit in your budget when you change processors. That is the King of Video cards hands down!!!!
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Last edited by Khalil; 11-20-2009 at 12:31 PM..
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11-20-2009, 12:34 PM
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#9
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Forum Administrator
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Threads merged for continuity purposes - looks like Khalil has pretty much repeated my original recommendation.
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11-20-2009, 12:53 PM
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#10
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 495
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You're calling a 5850 a midrange video card? Sure, obviously it's not a 5870, but the difference isn't enormous, and may not be worth the extra $100 to him. The 5850 is already the second fastest single-GPU card on the market today (to the 5870), and is sure to extend it's lead over the 200 series as the drivers mature.
The 295 is no longer the king of anything. The 5970 is out now (of course with the same availability issues as the 5800 series) and it blows the 295 away. However, I'm not sure what games you're planning on playing and at what resolutions, but it's very likely that a 5850 will be more than enough for you.
I'm tired of arguing P55/x58 here, so I'm not going to, especially since you seem set on x58 (which I have no problem with). You could save a bit of money if you went with an i7 860 (similar performance to the 920) and 4GB RAM, but that's up to you. All of your components are very solid; you could even stand to downgrade some of them a bit. You'd be fine with a regular P6T (the Deluxe V2 isn't a $414 board Khalil, it's bundled with the RAM), and you don't need an aftermarket CPU HS/F unless you plan on overclocking beyond 3.40 GHz or so.
Last edited by vtfanmv5; 11-20-2009 at 05:48 PM..
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11-20-2009, 02:36 PM
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#11
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Member (4 bit)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 13
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GLC: Thanks for combining the threads, I actually serarched for it but couldn't find it. I'm at work so I didn't have the earlier links here.
VTFAN:
Right the $414 cost was a bundle price that included the 6 gig Corsair RAM. It save $30 bucks.
VTFAN:
You said: "you don't need an aftermarket CPU HS/F unless you're plan on overclocking," is there a stock fan or heatsink included with the processor? I could find that identified anywhere.
Thanks very much. I appreciate even the "you're on the right track" comments as it offers reassurance for a first time build.
Did I miss any component?
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11-20-2009, 02:55 PM
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#12
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Avanzato Tecnico
Premiere Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,418
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The GTX295 is still king of the hill and that is a proven fact, this is why they are still selling like hot cakes to those who can afford them. Do you own one vt? Did you bench test it against a 5870 ?
To the OP, you are welcome to listen to advice from me and glc, people in the know, or listen to advice based on reading articles and threads. I have a 5870 in my machine and I have 3 Nvidia GTX295s in stock, I tested the GTX295 against the 5870 and the Nvidia smoked the ATI in frame rates and picture quality on a 24" monitor.
The 5850 is a mid range card compared to the GTX295 and the 5870 it is by no means a top shelf video card.
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11-20-2009, 03:22 PM
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#13
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Forum Administrator
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Yes, retail boxed processors include a heatsink/fan.
The P6T Deluxe V2 is specifically recommended because in Khalil's experience (he is a professional system builder with multiple shops) it's the most stable and straightforward X58 board he's dealt with. He is not just a casual hobbyist.
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11-20-2009, 05:46 PM
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#14
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 495
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Not what sure you're talking about, Khalil. I never compared the 5870 to the 295, obviously the 295 is going to perform better there.
The 5870 is the best single-GPU card there is. The 5970 is the best dual-GPU card there is. I don't know what else to tell you.
With that, I am going to be leaving this forum for good. I don't know why I wasted my time responding to Khalil and his snobby elitism for this long. You're not the only one here that builds dozens of machines a month, Khalil, not like that should give anyone your fantastic attitude anyways.
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11-20-2009, 07:02 PM
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#15
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Avanzato Tecnico
Premiere Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,418
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I am comparing money wise, for the same buget the OP can get a GTX295 why would he get an ATI 5870?
You are advising the guy to buy an 860 for a gaming rig, why? the 750 is all he needs to rock and roll in any game as long as he has the right card. The GTX295 in this case is a better card. If you want to discuss attitude I would read your first post in this thread, you are not qualified to correct me Sir!!!
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11-20-2009, 07:23 PM
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#16
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 495
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What? You can't get a 295 for the same price as a 5870. It's incredibly likely that both of those cards would be overkill for the foreseeable future, unless he's playing on 2560x1600, which would be just as much of a "waste" as a 920. It also makes no sense to buy a 295 right now, since the 5970 is available at only $70 more, has greatly improved performance over the 295 and many new features. I'm not even sure why you're talking about either of those cards, when the OP has only mentioned the 5850.
I didn't advise him to buy anything, I was just simply making him aware of the fact that the 860 is very similar to the 920 if he was interested in going P55. There is nothing wrong with the 750, 860, or 920 for a gaming build. If his means allow him to get an 860 or 920 and that's what he wants, then good for him. They're slightly stronger processors that will last him slightly longer.
I had zero attitude in my first post, but I am becoming amused by your lack of reading comprehension. I'm not sure why I waste my time.
Last edited by vtfanmv5; 11-20-2009 at 07:29 PM..
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11-20-2009, 08:56 PM
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#17
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Member (4 bit)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 13
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Thanks all very much
I appreciate the spirited debate folks.
Thanks very much for the comments.
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11-20-2009, 09:34 PM
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#18
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Forum Administrator
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The spirited debate is going to end RIGHT NOW, folks. It has crossed the line. I don't care what anyone's qualifications are, if you can't keep the discussion respectful it will be terminated, along with your memberships. If you cannot comply with the rules, we don't want you here no matter how much you know. This is an official warning to both you guys. Some example you are showing for this new member - shame on you both.
If someone offends you, DO NOT REPLY. Use the REPORT POST link and let THE STAFF handle it.
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11-20-2009, 09:48 PM
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#19
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 495
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Not like reporting your ignorant golden boy would do anything.
Feel free to terminate me. As I said, the attitudes around here have finally driven me away. Good luck to you all.
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11-20-2009, 10:32 PM
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#20
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Forum Administrator
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As you wish. Have a nice day, and thank you for your previous contributions.
Last edited by glc; 11-21-2009 at 12:11 AM..
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11-21-2009, 01:41 AM
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#21
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Member (12 bit)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,220
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Regarding your build, if you plan to RAID the hard drives, I would not use normal desktop WD hard drives (not sure how other brands work with RAID for normal desktop drives) as many people including myself have had trouble running normal desktop WD hard drives in RAID.
You should try to balance the parts in the computer so that the parts don't get bottlenecked; if you want the best performance and want to pay more for it, the Core i7 860 (socket1156) with either a HD5970 (or GTX295 if you can't find the ATI card or if you prefer Nvidia), if you just want a very good gaming computer without spending too much, a Core i5 750 with a HD5850 (or GTX285 if you can't find the ATI card or if you prefer Nvidia).
At the moment the socket 1156 Core iX series are preferable since they have better memory compatibility, lower prices and similar (or better) performance than the socket 1366. Upgrade potential with the 1156 socket also seems better as it has more processors released for it than socket 1366 and from what I've read the upcoming socket 1366 processors may or may not be compatible with current X58 motherboards.
Regarding the recommendation of AMD processors, I do and have recommended them when budget was a concern as the AMD processors can be had inexpensively and perform pretty well (right now referring to the ones priced around $150 and lower); the reliability of their processors are also as good as Intel. A few years ago when AMD brought out the first generation of the Phenom Quad Core processors, the only competitive processors they made was the low end dual cores (around $50 back then) and their high end unlocked dual cores (around $120 back then).
Right now if you are doing a good amount of processor intensive stuff Intel is the best choice (at least as long as you can spend $200 or more on the processor), however the upgrade potential on the Intel side has been very iffy the last few years (with a few exceptions, every time a new chipset was released, previous chipsets wouldn't be able to use the newer processors [at least not without a new revision of the motherboard]). AMD currently has good bang-for-the-buck processors at $150 and under and has much better integrated graphics performance as well as wider memory compatibility than Intel.
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11-21-2009, 03:07 AM
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#22
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Avanzato Tecnico
Premiere Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,418
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Great post Masaki.
After the Christmas season I am thinking of getting a 5970 for my gaming rig, I am going to be playing Old Republic when it becomes available and I have a habit of running 2 accounts at the same time on 2 monitors. However I may stick to a GTX295 simply so I can fold with it when I am not gaming, I hate how ATI scores so low at folding.
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11-21-2009, 09:59 AM
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#23
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Member (10 bit)
Premiere Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 909
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great post Masaki.
I agree about the x58 chipset in terms of stability, I have built a few of those (evga, foxconn, gigabyte) and have had more service calls then I originally anticipated... Lots of blue screens with them. I am staying away from those unless someone insists. I will admit though that the one P6T v2 board build has been flawless so far. I just built the p7p55d p55 Asus board for my brother and it is the best I have ever built and I couldn't tell the difference from the x58 board.
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11-21-2009, 11:07 AM
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#24
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Avanzato Tecnico
Premiere Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,418
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The P55 series is a plug and play platform, excellent for first time builders.
I just can't recomend an X58 build for a first time builder, too many things can go wrong and without the experience to deal with them a fun system build can turn into a nightmare.
Recently we upgraded a few to windows 7, they are all P6T V2 and we are getting a lot of unexplainable crashing, Asus tech support did not know what the issue was but they said they are working on it, some of the customers ended up having us put them back on Vista, not sure if it is windows 7 or the drivers from Asus.
Last edited by Khalil; 11-21-2009 at 11:39 AM..
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Linear Mode
