Kudos & Calamities: Coffee Anyone?

[Force Flow]

Tyler digs into the issues of the "Hot Coffee" mod for GTA:SA

http://www.pcmech.com/show/kudos/814/

If you have comment based on the article or directed at the author, please use the article comment system.
If you want to discuss the issue further, please feel free to post in this thread

[Hi Ho]

I agree with the article completely. I don't see what the big deal is. I hope Rockstar can get the M rating back.

[David M]

If a video game manufacturer provides X-rated content on one of their games, even though it is locked and against the term of the sale, that game should be given an X rating or mature rating.

Yes, the sexually explicit part is supposedly encoded so "nobody" can acces it, but this is not the reality of the situation. Anyone can access the sex scene.

What the video game companies should do to be honest with the parents is to package it with a warning label that lets the parents know it contains sexually explicit scenes and all it takes is a simple hack and your child will be able to view X rated material. This would be fair on the part of the video game writers.

If the video game manufacturers don't like it then don't try to sneak this kind of stuff into video games.

If you want to view cartoon porn then go out and buy it. There is pleanty of cheap porn on the internet...cartoon figures or not..and you won't have to hack it to see it.

All I ask is for the writers of this software to be honest with the consumers who purchase your products so they can make an informed choice as to whether or not they want to buy your product. If they sneak in a sex scene then they are not being very honest with the purchaser.

If the material is in there, encoded or not, then it should be disclosed.

[Stryker]

Couldn't have said it better myself David!

Originally Posted by Force in the article

It would be like pulling Windows XP off the shelf after the Sasser virus got out, or any porn virus. It simply doesn’t add up.

I'm gonna have to dispute this one FF. In your example, Microsoft would have had to integrate the porn virus into Windows and have it unlockable somehow. The virus was added by a third party, not built in so it's a very different situation. The game maker made a decision to build this into their game, now they are getting it shoved down their throat. I say "nah-nah nah-nah naahhh nah"! Serves them right.

[Force Flow]

Just for the record, this week's K&C article was written by Tyler. We alternate weeks.

[Stryker]

Oops... sorry force.
I retract my previous "FF" and replace it with "Tyler".

[kstatefan40]

I'll prolly come back and add to this when I get off work tonight, but I do not believe that to be the case. They left a hole in their operating system which can be hacked. Just like GTA has a sex scene that has to be hacked to get to. I was simply relating the two as similar.

[glc]

I totally agree with DavidM. I have no problem with the requirement to change the rating when the hole AND ITS HACK is publicized. If you disagree with the standards system, try to get it changed, don't whine about it, just like you would if you disagree with a law.

[bigandy]

To be honest, I think the whole thing is ridiculous. This game has never been advertised as anything other than a juvenile delinquent's wet dream. If you're mature enough to play a game where on top of killing cops, rival gang members, pimps, drug dealers, construction workers, hookers, and anyone else you please, you also: run with a gang, steal weapons, cars, and drugs, participate in illegal racing, burglarize houses, not to mention have sex with multiple girlfriends (which is pitifully disguised as "having coffee". But who moans and screams orgasmically while they drink a cup of coffe?) then you should be mature enough to decide whether or not to mod your copy of the game to unlock a pitiful sex mini-game.

I'm not going to say it was intelligent of Rockstar to leave themselves open like this by having the code in the finished product. But it is not forced upon you to mod the game and to play the mod. At some point we need to take responsibility too.

[tigstah]

Originally Posted by bigandy

To be honest, I think the whole thing is ridiculous. This game has never been advertised as anything other than a juvenile delinquent's wet dream. If you're mature enough to play a game where on top of killing cops, rival gang members, pimps, drug dealers, construction workers, hookers, and anyone else you please, you also: run with a gang, steal weapons, cars, and drugs, participate in illegal racing, burglarize houses, not to mention have sex with multiple girlfriends (which is pitifully disguised as "having coffee". But who moans and screams orgasmically while they drink a cup of coffe?) then you should be mature enough to decide whether or not to mod your copy of the game to unlock a pitiful sex mini-game.

I'm not going to say it was intelligent of Rockstar to leave themselves open like this by having the code in the finished product. But it is not forced upon you to mod the game and to play the mod. At some point we need to take responsibility too.

i agree with you.
if kids today want to see sex scenes, they will find a way.
the game out for the ps2 back in 2004, with the acts of violence, killings, carjackings.....our elected officials didnt have a big problem with it. oh but let a lil pixelated sex scene be in the game. every one cries out, we are ruining our children.
its ok for them to act out killings cops, shooting people, stomping them to death. but once you add a sex scene, that you have to unlock...thats going too far.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by tigstah

if kids today want to see sex scenes, they will find a way.

Does that mean we should give them yet another way to access it?

Originally Posted by tigstah

its ok for them to act out killings cops, shooting people, stomping them to death.

NO IT IS NOT! If it were up to me (unfortunately for me and fortunately for you, it isn't up to me), the game would never have been allowed to be released.

[Lamilia]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Does that mean we should give them yet another way to access it?


NO IT IS NOT! If it were up to me (unfortunately for me and fortunately for you, it isn't up to me), the game would never have been allowed to be released.

eh just as long as you know it's wrong to do it in real life

[Stryker]

I'm going to put my little toe over the political line for just a second. My apologies if it's too far, if so I'll remove it.

I think the world has become to complaicent about things such as this. Sure most people/kids realize that shooting a police officer or raping a woman is wrong, but what is the reasoning behind glorifying and portraying it as cool, fun, exciting, and so on? Why give even the slightest hint at an ideal that it is a form of entertainment?

It disgusts me that someone makes money off this filth. A person who distributes this trash to children should be poor in the gutter. Where's mankind's sense of responsibility to improve society instead of degrade it.

Don't get me going on the parents who buy this stuff for their kids, or I'll end up getting banned!

[tigstah]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Does that mean we should give them yet another way to access it?

no.
but kids can the real thing via the internet.
that lil pixelated image is nothing......
leisure suit larry, the whole concept of the game was to get larry....satisfied.
no a/o rating. no congress people crying foul.
simulated sex in the game.
whats the difference.

[Lamilia]

Originally Posted by Stryker

I'm going to put my little toe over the political line for just a second. My apologies if it's too far, if so I'll remove it.

I think the world has become to complaicent about things such as this. Sure most people/kids realize that shooting a police officer or raping a woman is wrong, but what is the reasoning behind glorifying and portraying it as cool, fun, exciting, and so on? Why give even the slightest hint at an ideal that it is a form of entertainment?

It disgusts me that someone makes money off this filth. A person who distributes this trash to children should be poor in the gutter. Where's mankind's sense of responsibility to improve society instead of degrade it.

Don't get me going on the parents who buy this stuff for their kids, or I'll end up getting banned!

eh I play it I bought gta 3 vice city and san andreas I play it mainly because I like guns Not playign with guns,shooting guns or anything like that Just knowing about them. I also play socom 2 thats violent but it's what is happening right now in iraq.

[Force Flow]

When you say "children" what do you mean? The rating system says that "M" is for ages 17+, not for toddlers. At 17, I'm pretty sure most people can tell the difference between a game and real life.

By the time someone is 17, they see more extreme violence displayed on TV and in movies than is displayed in a video game.

I think many of you are forgetting what the ESRB rating system is for. It's like the movie rating system. G is for everyone (E games), PG is for a slightly older audience, PG-13 is for teens (T games), R is for older teens and adults (M games), NC-17 is like AO...you just don't see it in family-oriented theaters.

People shouldn't blame game producers for M rated games that corrupt young children. The rating explicitly says that the game IS NOT for young children. Parents and guardians need to take more responisiblity for that because the ESRB does not play big brother in your private residence.

[kstatefan40]

Originally Posted by Force Flow

When you say "children" what do you mean? The rating system says that "M" is for ages 17+, not for toddlers. At 17, I'm pretty sure most people can tell the difference between a game and real life.

By the time someone is 17, they see more extreme violence displayed on TV and in movies than is displayed in a video game.

I think many of you are forgetting what the ESRB rating system is for. It's like the movie rating system. G is for everyone (E games), PG is for a slightly older audience, PG-13 is for teens (T games), R is for older teens and adults (M games), NC-17 is like AO...you just don't see it in family-oriented theaters.

People shouldn't blame game producers for M rated games that corrupt young children. The rating explicitly says that the game IS NOT for young children. Parents and guardians need to take more responisiblity for that because the ESRB does not play big brother in your private residence.

Agreed.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Force Flow

When you say "children" what do you mean? The rating system says that "M" is for ages 17+, not for toddlers. At 17, I'm pretty sure most people can tell the difference between a game and real life.

I agree FF, but the understanding of fantasy and reality isn't really my point. I just don't see why things need to exist that portrait these things as anything other than evil and horrible. I'm glad there is a rating system, but in an IDEAL world (I know it's not ideal) there wouldn't be a requirement for a rating system.

Originally Posted by Force Flow

By the time someone is 17, they see more extreme violence displayed on TV and in movies than is displayed in a video game.

True, which is also a shame.

Originally Posted by Force Flow

People shouldn't blame game producers for M rated games that corrupt young children. The rating explicitly says that the game IS NOT for young children. Parents and guardians need to take more responisiblity for that because the ESRB does not play big brother in your private residence.

Originally Posted by Stryker

Don't get me going on the parents who buy this stuff for their kids, or I'll end up getting banned!

[David M]

Stryker,
Parents are still responsible for their children until they turn 18. They are responsible, legally, ethically and morally. Therefore parents have every right to know what kind of pornographic or violent material is in their house. Given this, it also means parents have the right to know if a video game contains material that they do not want their children to see. It is irrelevant if their child may have already been exposed to this type of material already. Two wrongs (in the parents eyes) do not make it right.

I stand by my belief that parents have the right to know what is contained in video games. It was clearly a violation of parental rights to sneak that material into San Andreas.

[Force Flow]

I'm guessing they didn't "sneak" that scene in. It was probably simply "cut" like a scene in a movie. However, to save time, they didn't physically remove it, they just moved the camera view.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by David M

Stryker,
Parents are still responsible for their children until they turn 18. They are responsible, legally, ethically and morally. Therefore parents have every right to know what kind of pornographic or violent material is in their house. Given this, it also means parents have the right to know if a video game contains material that they do not want their children to see. It is irrelevant if their child may have already been exposed to this type of material already. Two wrongs (in the parents eyes) do not make it right.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant that games like that wouldn't exist, not that the ratings should just be removed.

[David M]

Ok...my apologies Stryker.